约翰以一个更传统的永生概念——升入天堂——开始了对话。肯很快纠正了他，引用生物和技术的进步作为在地球上永生的手段。约翰不太喜欢把他的意识困在某个金属盒子里的想法。当肯用自己永生的可能性诱惑约翰时，约翰仍然不相信，他认为未来科技的约翰活在几百万年后根本就不是约翰。肯指责约翰是一个“勒德分子”，而约翰似乎并不介意。

在短暂的休息之后，凯文·奥尼尔教授加入了约翰和肯的节目。他简要地解释了他是如何在很小的时候就对死亡着迷的。他们引用了彼得•泰尔(Peter Thiel)和雷•库兹韦尔(Ray Kurzweil)的努力，讨论了“跨人文主义”的前景，即超越人体固有的限制。约翰和肯转向了一个更社会性的问题:如果世界上居住着这些跨人类的人，世界将会是什么样子。支持这一运动的企业家们是否关心保护个人身份或任何可识别的人类特征?约翰是持怀疑态度。肯——他对这场运动的抨击或许还停留在青少年时期——致力于为这场运动辩护，认为它至少解决了许多问题。

A listener Arianna calls in to criticize the capitalist underpinnings of trying to buy life itself. O’Neill mentions that the impulse for immortality has recurred throughout history. They then discuss how technological immortality fits into a less narcissistic, more Eastern approach to the self. Several callers question the possibility of reproducing minds electronically and actually living forever. O’Neill then addresses an email from Patricia on how diversity, gender, and race would survive after this technological revolution. Continuing this thought, they reflect on the desirability of immortality and the huge costs of developing the technologies. Perhaps such immortality threatens our humanity, but is this such a bad thing? But then again, what’s wrong with death’s place in humanity?

John and Ken press O’Neill on what he ultimately thinks. O’Neill presents a fair but skeptical response. John and Ken too offer their takeaways, both frankly admitting they’ve become more luddite.

Roving Philosophical Report(Seek to 6:22): Shuka Kalantari reports on billionaire Dmitry Itskov’s ambitious plans to produce artificial human bodies. His2045 Initiative是“控制论永生”的先驱，该技术可以将人类意识上传到这些人造身体上。

60-Second Philosopher(《寻求》第46章21节):伊恩·肖尔斯对追求永生背后的心理和动机进行了尖锐的评论。