Is Nothing Sacred Anymore?

12 November 2011

Today we're asking the question: Is Nothing Sacred Anymore?

持有神圣的东西通常与宗教和上帝联系在一起。有些事情被认为是神圣的,因为它们与上帝的意愿和命令有关。我认为我们的问题在一定程度上是关于当代道德的。这也是关于在我们这个或多或少世俗的时代,有什么令人信服的理由来证明神圣的东西。

例如,我们可能同意人的生命是神圣的。对一些人来说,这是上帝的愿望,但其他人可能认为这只是人类生活本身的问题。上帝的戒律可能是一种解释,但不是唯一的。

And being sacred is connected with taboos. If something is sacred, there are certain things you simply don’t do to it or with it -- such things are taboo. Something taboo is not simply wrong on-balance, it's just out of the question. Not to be considered. Off-limits.

For example, everyone agrees, more or less, in the abstract about freedom of expression. But burning a Koran -- even the most civil libertarian of Muslims might think that's just beyond the pale. Or consider the artwork involving a crucifix in urine. Whatever idea is being expressed, we're inclined to say, find some other way of expressing it.

Given that, I’d say a lot of things are still sacred, some of which aren’t tied to any particular religion.

我认为恋尸癖在任何地方都是禁忌;人的生与死是神圣的。恋童癖是禁忌;所以孩子也有一些神圣的东西。我们不认为这些事情是不明智的人生选择,而仅仅是越界。其他的东西应该是神圣的,应该有禁忌。地球应该是神圣的,掠夺它是一个严重的禁忌。

But why? If we can’t give a religious explanation for sacredness and taboos, what explanation can we give? Pedophilia is very wrong because of the way it ruins lives.
But what justifies our horror at necrophilia? Presumably it doesn't directly cause any pain. The main ill-effect seem to be disgust, horror, and self-loathing at the act – but aren’t these effects because itistaboo, not explanations for itbeingtaboo?

You know, we're really re-examining one of Plato’s famous problems, in the Euthephro. Are certain acts impious because the gods say they are, or do the gods say those acts are impious because they are so to begin with? If it's the latter, then we have some concept of the sacred and the impious independently of the gods, and we can make secular sense of impiety, and some things can be sacred anymore.

To help examine this old question we'll be joined by Cora Diamond, Professor Emeritus of Philosophy and Law at the University of Virginia.


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Comments(13)


Guest's picture

Guest

Sunday, November 13, 2011 -- 4:00 PM

Equality is sacred to me.

Equality is sacred to me.
=
MJA

Guest's picture

Guest

Sunday, November 13, 2011 -- 4:00 PM

It does not matter whether

It does not matter whether anything is sacred now. Because sacred, as an aspect of human consciousness, has taken on an aura of fantasy. It means little in an affluent society, focused on acquisition. At the risk of being post-modern: money is what it is all about, baby.

mirugai's picture

mirugai

Sunday, November 13, 2011 -- 4:00 PM

TABOO PORK

TABOO PORK
On a sailboat in Turkey, I was discussing barbeque with the Muslim captain, who loved to bbq. I said I was a bbq pro myself, and when he asked me what I liked to bbq best, I gulped. ?Captain, I?m sorry to tell you, but my favorite is pork.? He visibly flinched, then, apologetically said ?I am not a ?strict Muslim,? but I just don?t like the flavor of pork, or the smell of cooking pork.? I know the kind of gamey-verging-on-the-putrid smell some pork can have; and I sympathized. However, whenever the subject of bacon or pork bbq comes up with Muslims I know, they all say, word for word, just what the captain said. Somehow the taboo is working on those not obligated to follow it: more evidence of the interesting ways cultural taboo works, alluded to by Ken in the show.
我希望每个对宗教感兴趣的人都读过《出土圣经》。总共有50个不同的小定居点组成了历史学家认为的最早的犹太人定居点。人呢?考古学家没有发现关于等级制度,仪式,仪式,教学,精神实践,行政秩序的证据?在所有的定居点中,唯一可以称得上一致的是没有猪!
Why the Old Testament (and subsequent Muslim) prohibition against pig? Trichinosis didn?t exist at that time, so that isn?t the often alluded to reason. My possible explanations: Eating fat was a no-no, and it is impossible to separate the fat from all the meat in pork, the fat lusciously permeates.
A better explanation: God of the OT has one obsession, and that is that there be no other gods or idols or over-indulgences on the part of the Jews. God doesn?t want Jews to worship anything but Him. Not idols, money, work, animal wealth, farming wealth. Self-denial of pleasures (and sacrifice of wealth for appeasement or transgressions) shows the worshipper?s willingness to obey God?s even un-understandable prohibitions, and to submit to him. Pork is soooo delicious (bacon is having a real boom among the young today).
Another question on taboos, for all you philosophers: Why shouldn?t parents be able to sell their kids? Really, why?

Guest's picture

Guest

Tuesday, November 15, 2011 -- 4:00 PM

Life is sacred to me.

Life is sacred to me.
And the only reason animals are smoked and burnt and drowned in bbq sauce is because the bloody flesh of fellow animals are terrible things to kill and eat.
To the good life,
=
MJA

Harold G. Neuman's picture

Harold G. Neuman

Wednesday, November 16, 2011 -- 4:00 PM

My suspicion, though perhaps

My suspicion, though perhaps simplistic, is that loss of the sacred has something to do with the culture of relativism which so distresses the Pope and probably others of similar cloth. I am not Catholic nor any other similar persuasion, but I do understand theological thinking---to a small degree. The loss of moral compass tends to set ships adrift and souls in conflict. For many of those post-moderns VanPelt alludes to, sacred is anagram for scared, and they do not wish to come to the end of life without having experienced all the wonders the world has to offer. That they may also incur a goodly number of its horrors does not worry them much until those bridges are crossed. The sacred is still relevant. But only to those who choose it.

Guest's picture

Guest

Sunday, November 20, 2011 -- 4:00 PM

I think Harold is absolutely

我认为哈罗德是完全正确的,普遍接受的"神圣"的终结与道德相对主义有很大关系。如果对与错是由环境或个人喜好决定的,那么就真的没有对与错了。合乎逻辑的结论是,在这样一个世界里,每个人都做对自己最有利的事情,而不管其他人或其他事情,“目的为手段正名”。换句话说,用霍布斯的话来说,一个生活肮脏,野蛮,短暂的世界。人类的天性就是为自己的每一次行为找借口,而不去期待我们给自己带来的后果。这就是为什么职业要制定道德规范——因为人们根本不相信个人能够监督自己。
As for mirugai's question, "why not sell your kids?" If right and wrong indeed come down to individual preference, then there is no good reason not to do that, or anything else for that matter. Right and wrong is whatever benefits me. As long as we ourselves, either as individuals or as "society," are the highest standard, it will always come to that.
The problem with selling one's kids would be the same with selling anyone. It is also the same as the problem with pornography or prostitution, frankly. All of these activities treat people as mere objects. People are not objects, they are people. Of course, at this point, without reference to something outside our mere selves, we begin to go in circles.
So here is the problem. Once we let go of the idea that there is any standard higher than ourselves, what is to prevent us from losing all the taboos, all the lanes in the road, all the rules? Is there any good reason, from a strictly human or materialistic point of view, not to sell your kids? Or eat them, as some species do? Or do any other "horrible" thing we may feel like doing? I think the answer is no. If we are just another species of animal, there is no good reason not to do any of those things, other than 'it sure seems wrong.'
至于禁止吃猪肉,我认为这与牺牲和自我克制没有什么关系。猪肉只是禁忌食物清单中的一种——这是今天犹太人仍然遵守的洁食规则的基础,也是穆斯林遵守的哈拉节规则的基础。两国人民仍然生产美味和多样的美食。相反,它是关于“隔离”——这些规则将犹太人与他们周围的人区分开来。其他宗教/民族有其他方式做同样的事情。一旦这些规则开始实施,违反它们确实会让人感到厌恶。

Guest's picture

Guest

Monday, November 21, 2011 -- 4:00 PM

Every system of values needs

Every system of values needs a cornerstone, a source: one principle not to be discussed. Otherwise you are in a quagmire of total relativism, which maks itself relative too. Since the Enlightment- time this basic principle must be rational, evident, found by autonomus thinking: eg Human Rights.

Guest's picture

Guest

Tuesday, November 22, 2011 -- 4:00 PM

I'll simply say this about

I'll simply say this about this post and ensuing comments: way cool. Awesome is for pop-culturists and very young people who have not yet experienced awesome. I hope the originators of this blog are pleased with the participation. Agree, disagree or remain neutral, the contributors have left us all much to contemplate.

Guest's picture

Guest

Wednesday, November 23, 2011 -- 4:00 PM

I'm sorry but I think you

I'm sorry but I think you guys (and gals) missed the big issue. Particularly with necrophiliac. Apply these:
1. Golden Rule: Do unto others as you would have them do unto you.
2. Social Contract
3. Rights
一个人应该有权控制他或她的身体的处置。恋尸癖几乎总是会违背死者的意愿。Ergo, necrophilia = bad
Incest is a little different because it often violates a fiduciary relationship and is fraught with abuse and undue influence. So there needs to be protection for the victim. (It also has a tendency to produce less fit offspring). Ergo, incest usually bad.
So why do we even need to discuss the subjects in terms of religion when more traditional philosophical discourse will cover it more completely?

Guest's picture

Guest

Tuesday, November 29, 2011 -- 4:00 PM

Whether you discuss in terms

无论你是否从宗教的角度来讨论,真正的问题是,人们在什么基础上判断事物的对错?雷莫建立的三个基本原则,例如:为什么是这些?为什么一个人应该有权决定自己的身体的处置?在人类历史的大部分时间里,大多数人(奴隶、农奴等)都没有享受过这样的权利,你很难找到认为这是一个问题的人。例如,直到不到300年前,人们才认为奴隶制在原则上是错误的。那么,为什么是现在呢?
We can of course debate the issue of right and wrong and taboos without any reference to religion...but why should we? The Golden Rule, for example, is from the Sermon on the Mount (Matthew 7:12), at least in its positive form (Buddha stated it negatively, as in "do not to to anyone what you would not want them to do to you"). Should we not use it because it has a "religious" origin?
我认为,Negue331说,任何价值体系都需要一个“基石”,而这个“基石”并没有被讨论。否则,一个人就会陷入相对主义——一切都回到个人观点和欲望上来。接下来的问题是,这个基石应该是什么?“社会契约”只是“社会想要什么”的另一种说法,它仅仅意味着“许多像我这样的人今天似乎认为是正确的”。如果仅仅基于“社会”同意提供的东西,“权利”只是社会契约的一个子集。哪些是“权利”?多数意见是一个足够好的基础吗?

Guest's picture

Guest

Saturday, December 3, 2011 -- 4:00 PM

Your notion is correct in one

Your notion is correct in one sense. I'll elaborate briefly. There was an old cartoon, oh, thirty or more years ago. Two or three human(?) figures gathered around an icon consisting of one word: NOTHING. One said to another, "is nothing sacred?" Art. Limitation. Life?---Sure.

Guest's picture

Guest

Tuesday, February 21, 2012 -- 4:00 PM

Nice words but urtontunafely

话不错,但在现实生活中没有多大意义。你唯一拥有的权利是由政府在适合他们的时候实施的。他们可以随时被带走。问问任何在二战期间感兴趣的日裔美国公民,或者问问关塔那摩湾的囚犯,美国给他们展示了哪些自由权利。权利只是一个让我们暂时快乐的虚构概念,就像上帝和圣诞老人一样。

MariaAlbert's picture

MariaAlbert

Thursday, July 3, 2014 -- 5:00 PM

Spirituality comes by reading

Spirituality comes by reading holy book books and verses. The best way is reading verses. I usually pay to get about verses and it's explanations.